Talk:Swan Shiratori
Olympic Bronze? Do we consider the "reference" that Swan is Bronze as opposed to orange (or white?) It's been mentioned repeatedly given the whole Olympics 2004 thing and that Marigold and DekaBright are silver and gold- that Swan completes the trio of auxillary 'medal-themed' rangers. I didn't make the change right away as I have yet to find more solid info on this. Guys? :I say no - there is not even an ounce of bronze on her costume just orange, white, and black stripes. Gold and Silver are commonly used colors in Sentai. Clearly not a valid reference. :::I feel the same way, but at least this'll be here as a challenge to anyone who can back the "info" up. If an official source references it, we'll go with that. Otherwise, it'll stay as is. Color Why are we back to changing her color to white when she is an Orange ranger? Yes, her ranger key has a white sticker and uses the special latch. Doggie's is a very light shade of blue, but considered black with a black latch. There's no definitive proof that she is a white ranger, and the same latch is used for Gold, White, Silver, and Crimson (see Wolzard Fire but not Kabuto Raiger) keys. We've been through this discussion previously - there is already a white ranger (DekaBreak/Omega Ranger), so the color of the sticker is probably in error. :Another example of why ranger keys are unreliable as proof - my Battle Kenya ranger key (Black ranger from Battle Fever J) has a Green latch instead of a Black one! My GaoWhite key has a Pink latch instead of a White one. Battle Cossack has a Yellow one (but he's Orange, not Yellow!). I don't own one, but Beet Buster (Gold) has a Yellow latch. This is why we cannot take ranger keys as definitive proof of anything. I've reverted all edits back to their previous state. Because we cannot definitively prove whether she is Orange or White, it is of the best compromise to leave her as Orange since there is already a White, and leave in the note that her color is debatable in the fandom. Which is how we had it to begin with. ::Do we have anything to connect her to orange other than her suit? Cuz we have the roll call. We have the key's bow. So far the only other connection is her morph bg color, but that hardly trumps all else. We just happen to have more "white" data. For everybody you mentioned, we have other sources that call these Rangers a different color than their keys, so those are off the table. We just need something that actually says "Swan's orange" other than observation. So far we've only gotten two instances of "Swan's white". :::Ranger keys do not prove anything, per the examples given above. Because if they did, then Battle Kenya would be a Green Ranger, not a Black Ranger. DekaMaster would be a Blue Ranger, not a Black Ranger and so on.Yes, other sources call them that - but that's my point. Her roll call does not state she is a white ranger (DekaSwan). The key's bow is a known re-use of the DekaBreak one (R-153) because they added the extra rangers (including MagiMother and Wolzard Fire, who both share MagiShine's R-160 key blade) later. They planned to include DekaMaster (R-154) and BullBlack (R-119), which is why they got their own numbers. Rio and Mele have GekiChopper's R-171 despite being green and black keys for this same reason. Normally, green and black keys have their own latches - but they don't. And because of the aforementioned sources showing an error in, say, the Battle Kenya key it is likely that DekaSwan's being white is equally in error. Ultimately there is no usable proof to say that she is white. We cannot go off the keys because of the other glaring errors, in light of other sources. Because although these sources state Battle Kenya is a black ranger, his key still has a green latch. I own this key. It does in fact have the green latch instead of a black one. So that means we cannot say the key trumps all else due to the other sources. If the sources say he is black, but the key says he's green (due to the latch), then the key is clearly in error. We cannot, then, use a key to defend Swan as White due to the same error. :::I am well aware that Battle Kenya's sticker is black, and White Swan and GaoWhite's stickers are white all in light of the latch on their keys - but that makes the keys in error. The latter two are clearly white rangers, and there is a white latch (the same used for gold and silver keys, and re-used for Wolzard Fire, Mele, and Rio) which should have been used instead of a Pink one. All other whites (including Big One, GekiChopper, KibaRanger, DekaBreak, MagiMother, etc.) all use the white latch. Wolzard Fire should have a red latch (like KabutoRaiger does as the other Crimson). Rio should have a black latch. Mele should have a green latch. But they don't as they share GekiChopper's. Therefore the keys can and do have errors - and that is why we cannot trust them as factual proof. In short, there is no definitive proof either way - but because there is already a white ranger (DekaBreak/Omega Ranger), it is best to leave it as Orange and state that the color is debatable in the notes, just like we had it. ::For it to be debatable, there has to be a source. The key does not trump "all else". It trumps observation. This is the reason why Kenya's a Black Ranger still and Time Fire is a red rangers. Also, note that while the key molds are duplicates, the stickers (which define the colors of the Rangers themselves) are all consistent. Time Fire is red, Kenya is black, White Swan's is white. We have sources that state Battle Kenya is a black Ranger, therefore, whatever his key's cuts say, he's a black Ranger. DekaSwan (of the white etoile) has no such distinction. Nothing says she is orange. Simply put- Show classification trumps written classification, which trumps toy information which trumps no information at all/no source. Also the stickers are way more consistent than the actual latches. This is why I keep asking for proof of orange. Note that the only Ranger not to use the color of sticker he's assigned to is DekaMaster. There are 198+ other keys whose Rangers match their rangers. Two colors in a team is not unheard of. I'm not arguing we use white over orange because it's a preference. It's because it's the only one with ANY classification. Because, okay outside of the keys, WHERE do we get Orange? :::There is no source that DekaSwan is white that you have offered, except for the key itself (that is, the sticker on it). Because the key does not trump "all else", then what is observed on it cannot be taken for fact (no other source backs that up, unlike the others). DekaMaster is another example of why your example does not work. He has been classified as a Black ranger, and his key has a black latch. His sticker, however, is NOT black. However, other sources would indicate he is, or he would not be classified as such. One can say the largest chunk of his suit is black, therefore he is. I see a large chunk of DekaSwan's suit that is Orange (maybe not the same amount, but a large chunk of it). By that virtue of observation, as you put it, she can be classified as Orange. Long story short, we're going to go in circles here because there is no source at all to specifically state what color she is. The best compromise is to note that no season has 2 of the same color in it, barring ranger replacements. Therefore the odds that she should be white as opposed to orange are closer to null. We agreed on the orange + note compromise awhile back - there's nothing to indicate that needs to be changed now. Unless there's some definitive proof that she is white - and I've yet to see any - it is best we leave it as we have been. Considering the status of Dekaranger and the likelihood of another revisit post-Gokaiger, I doubt we're going to see anything. ::The roll call refers to her as the "white ballet star". TimeFire is a red ranger and is referred to as such by the hold. The Goraigers are considered secondary of existing colors. Wolzard Fire's sticker is also red. As for DekaMaster, if anyone's debatable, there's that one. But the only reason he's not classified under anything else is because there are not "Metallic Blue Rangers" classified by Toei or otherwise. DekaMaster is your one exception to the clear classification of the labeling of each bow. There are no other keys of Rangers or Bangai Heroes that conflict against given classifications. Therefore that becomes a source. :Also, a note from a Japanese speaker. Her chest says 'white' in kanji (白) as opposed to an outright number. ::Doggie's roll call in SPD refers to him as "Shadow Ranger", which implies black. Yet, as you stated DekaMaster is not representative of black except for the latch on the key. DekaSwan's The color white is often associated with healing and with swans hence its use in the roll call. However, her suit is dominantly Orange. What proof exists that definitively states she is white? We've already established that the ranger keys cannot definitively state what color a ranger is due to numerous anomalies with regards to them (some having the wrong color latch like Battle Kenya, DekaMaster's being of the wrong primary color, etc). Nothing here is concrete that she is white. But we generally defer to Orange here because no season has had 2 rangers of the same color on them (replacements not counting because they took over for someone of the same color). And the kanji resembles 'white', not is white according to the article. ::If you say the show trumps all else, then actually she would have to be orange. Notice the colored background as she transforms. Notice the large amounts of Orange on her arms and legs, and back. She performs the roll call here, and the background references a swan - which is white. Now we have a source for Orange, where is a source for white? The background cannot be your source unless you wanna discuss the cyan that appears behind DekaBreak and DekaMaster. Now coming from a position where we compare her to most rangers as opposed to the unclassifiable Dekamaster, here's what we got. The show's background would have been white if that was its intention so that can be a source. The Cyan shade on DekaMaster is the secondary color of his outfit (which white would be for DekaSwan) and prevents black on black coloring, and on DekaBreak the Dark Blue is the right-sided accent on his outfit. Here's an updated chart: #1 I'm referring to the key labels. Not the latches (also it's a special latch, not necessarily a white one), which as you have pointed out are references to other keys. Removed it from discussion below as it neither proves white nor orange. #2 There are multiple Ranger teams with more than one of the same color and not even as replacement. All of them ALSO are labeled correctly in the keys. :However it does belong because it shows that ranger keys are not always 100% correct and reliable, which is what part of your claim states. So it is part of the discussion. As you can see, we can keep going in circles or we can accept that there's no concrete proof either way and leave at the last known compromise with Swan listed as Orange because DekaBreak is the white. We aren't going to see any further proof from Toei's perspective because the series is long over and Gokaiger did not address it. :Actually it's better we just address it the way Toei does, to an extent, at least for these two. Rangers with Unclassified Colors. This should lay the matter to rest. Went ahead and placed her in both categories explicitly noting her un-classified-ness. lol :I saw that and I'm like what the heck is he doing? All lulz aside, I like it.